[ranchos] Dispensas Matrimoniales


Steven,

thanks so much for the explanation. I'm sure that this information if diligently utilized will result in many of us advancing our genealogies significantly. I've looked at one of these films for the 1819 period and saw the possibility of finding a gold mine of information.

I'm in the process of getting ready for a trip to DC to see an art exhibition at the National Gallery of Art on the Mayas and a a trip to the Library of Congress and possibly to NARA. Any one of those deserves a month long visit so spending partial days at each might prove to be frustrating so we'll see how it goes. I said all that only to say that I have several questions about this subject but don't have the time to ask them now. In the next week or so I'll get my thoughts together and see if we can get the group involved in a discussion on this very very important source of information. In the meantime this subject is on the floor and has been opened for discussion. I'm sure many of you are just itching to ask your many questions and share your various comments. The iron is hot. . .pegale!

joseph

ps: quick one: I've noticed that in the "Informacion Matrimonial" films that some of  what appear to be "dispensas" are recorded there. If those indeed are dispensas recorded locally in the parishes can we expect to find another copy of the same dispensa in Guadalajara? Or might they only be recorded in the local parish? Or might these not be dispensas at all but some other information related to the Pre-Marriage Investigation? These records that I found had the genealogical diagrams similar to the ones you gave as examples showing the relationships between the couple. I can give more specific information later if needed.
 

Pacorro73@... wrote:
 I have been availing myself of the various marriage dispensations that are archived in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara.  The Sagrada Mitra is the central archive for the Archdiocese of Guadalajara (AG).  The AG at one point encompassed all the territory as widespread as Texas, California, Durango, Chihuahua, Zacatecas, Nayarit, Aguascalientes, Colima, and of course Jalisco. 


Steven,
You are right about Eligia Martin's birth year should be 1855, as she was married at 15 years of age (Per her marriage certificate).  She married her husband Evaritsto Ramirez on February 2, 1870.  Also, Eligia Martin was baptised on the 5th of December, 1855, in San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco.
 
That's all for now and thank you very much for your help. 
 
Maria
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 12:49 AM
Subject: [ranchos] Dispensas Matrimoniales

 I have been availing myself of the various marriage dispensations that are archived in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara.  The Sagrada Mitra is the central archive for the Archdiocese of Guadalajara (AG).  The AG at one point encompassed all the territory as widespread as Texas, California, Durango, Chihuahua, Zacatecas, Nayarit, Aguascalientes, Colima, and of course Jalisco.  It is for the pueblos and ranchos of Jalisco and Aguascalientes that the valuable marriage dispensations have been the most useful.  I have already seen and analyzed dispensas from 1799, 1800, 1802, 1805, 1806, 1807, 1808, 1809, 1810, 1811, 1812, 1823, and 1825.  I'm working on filling in the gaps to maximize their effectiveness and not let any dispensa slip through the cracks. I already have dispensas from Arandas (aft 1794), Atotonilco el Alto (aft 1794), Ayo el Chico (aft 1794), Jalos, Tepa, San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Mexticacán, Teocaltiche, Zapotlanejo, Cuquio, Encarnación, Aguascalientes, Nochistlán, etc, etc. 
 
And I highly recommend that many of you also start looking in these films because I have seen many marriage dispensations from Jerez, Zacatecas, Tepetongo, Colotlán, Santa María de los Angeles, Fresnillo, Tlaltenango, Juchipila, Ameca, Magdalena, Tequila, Zapotlán, Moyagua, and other Zacatecas and Jalisco towns.  The reason is that in these microfilms you'll see marriage information, dispensations, marriage petitions, denuncias, and a lot of very juicy gossip and some very "interesting" information.  I have seen some rather shocking information about various individuals from all over the AG in these records: husbands having relations with their sisters-in-law; promises to marry that were not kept, premarital cohabitation, murders, etc.  Not only this but they are always very detailed in regards to the genealogical information they contain.
 
Here's an example of what you can find, and how one in particular helped me. 

I first discovered the marriage information (información matrimonial) of Joseph Manuel Hernández Gamiño and María de la Trinidad Hernández Gamiño, in Arandas, Jalisco, on 14 March 1799.  Source: Microfilm # 0279587, Marriage Information, 1797-1847, Arandas, Jalisco, México.  When this marriage information was filed, it was discovered that the groom and the bride shared four (4) different blood kinship bonds (cuatro parentescos de consanguinidad).  All four were of the fourth degree (del cuarto grado), meaning they were third-cousins on four different lines.  This information was very important to me at the time because the lineage on the left is that of my direct paternal line, and I had been stuck on a dead end at Juan Ignacio Hernández Gamiño and Juana-Catarina Magaña.  So this dispensa helped me break through this dead-end, and helped me to connect my main line with that of the rest of the Hernández Gamiño.  The lineage on the left is one I have on my mother’s side.

Joseph Manuel Hernández Gamiño and María de la Trinidad Hernández Gamiño were married in Arandas, Jalisco, and required a dispensation for their marriage.  Their marriage dispensation which is dated 25 March 1799 gives four different blood kinships (parentestcos de consanguinidad).  This marriage dispensation is located in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara in Guadalajara, Jalisco, Microfilm Marriage Dispensations, 1799, # 0168108. 

          The pertinent portions of their dispensation state the following: "Joseph Manuel Hernández de calidad Español de estado soltero de veinte y quatro años de edad, originario del Partido de Arandas en el Carrisal, hijo Lexítimo de Juan Ygnacio Hernández, que vive, y de María Catarina Magaña, Difunta, . . . con efecto quiere contraher Matrimonio con María Trinidad Hernández, Española originaria del mismo Puesto de estado Doncello de Diez y siete años de edad, hija Lexítima de Ygnacio Hernández, que vive, y de María Doñana (Anna María Tello de Orozco), Difunta. . . ."

          The three witnesses presented were:  (1) "Juan Ygnacio Hernández, de calidad español de sesenta y siete años de edad, de estado casado originario de este Partido en el Carrisal"; (2) "Clemente Hernández de calidad Español de veinte y ocho años de edad de estado casado originario del Partido de Arandas en el Carrisal"; (3) "José Manuel Hernández de calidad Español de quarenta y tres años de edad, de estado casado originario del Pocito, Jurisdicción de Jalostotitlán."  A todos los tres tres les tocaban las generales de la ley.  This means that all three were related to the groom and bride.  The witnesses declared that indeed the two requesting to be married were related to each other and presented the following lineage charts:

The TRONCO is the common ancestor 

Tronco

Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño & María de Velasco

Hijos . . . . . . . . . . . Clemente Hernández . . .  y . . . . . Miguel Hernández . . . . . . . . . .  1er. Grado

Nietos . . . . . . . . . . . Miguel Hernández . . . .  y . . . . . . Juan Hernández . . . . . . . . . . . 2do. Grado

Bisnietos . . . . .  Juan Ygnacio Hernández . . y . . Juan Ygnacio Hernández . . . . . . . .  3er. Grado

Ternietos . . . . . . José Manuel Hernández . .  y . .  Ma. Trinidad Hernández . . . . . . . .  4to. Grado

 

Tronco

Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño & María de Velasco

Hijos . . . . . . . . . . . Clemente Hernández . . .  y . . . . . . María de Velasco . . . . . . . . . . . 1er. Grado

Nietos . . . . . . . . . . . Miguel Hernández . . . .  y . .  Juan Manuel Tello de Orozco . . . . . 2do. Grado

Bisnietos . . . . .  Juan Ygnacio Hernández . . y . . . Anna María Tello de Orozco . . . . . . 3er. Grado

Ternietos . . . . . . José Manuel Hernández . .  y . . . . Ma. Trinidad Hernández . . . . . . . . 4to. Grado

 

Tronco

Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño & María de Velasco

Hijos . . . . . . . . . . . Cristóbal Hernández . . . . y . . . . . . Miguel Hernández . . . . . . . . . . 1er. Grado

Nietos . . . . . . . Ma. Guadalupe Hernández . . y . . . . . . . Juan Hernández . . . . . . . . . .  2do. Grado

Bisnietos . . . . . . . . Catarina Magaña . . . . . .  y . . . Juan Ygnacio Hernández . . . . . . .  3er. Grado

Ternietos . . . . . José Manuel Hernández . . .  y . . .  Ma. Trinidad Hernández . . . . . . . . 4to. Grado

 

Tronco

Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño & María de Velasco

Hijos . . . . . . . . . . Cristóbal Hernández . . . . . y . . . . . . . . María de Velasco . . . . . . . . . . 1er. Grado

Nietos . . . . . . Ma. Guadalupe Hernández . . . y . . . Juan Manuel Tello de Orozco . . . . .  2do. Grado

Bisnietos . . . . . . . Catarina Magaña . . . . . . .  y . . .  Anna María Tello de Orozco . . . . . . 3er. Grado

Ternietos . . .  José Manuel Hernández . . . . . y . . . . . Ma. Trinidad Hernández . . . . . . . . 4to. Grado


Scanned excerpts from the Dispensa in question

(Source: Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara in Guadalajara, Jalisco,

Microfilm Marriage Dispensations, 1799, # 0168108) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Signatures of two different ancestors of mine in March, 1799.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Juan Ignacio Hernández Gamiño y Maciel                          Juan Ignacio Hernández Gamiño y Vásquez de Lara

(b. 1731-d. ?)                                                                               (b. 1729 – d. ?)

One of my main paternal ancestors                                            An ancestor from my mother’s side
 
 
So as you can see, I was able to obtain lots of very juicy and pertinent pieces of data about my family.  I learned that they were not illiterate hicks, but were quite educated, or at least educated enough to sign their own names, and quite well I might add.  You'll also find some very important information about the witnesses, sometimes the witnesses could be your relatives, and they also sign their names, most of the time.  But the genealogical information is by far the most important for us, because invariably these dispensations will extend your family tree two, maybe three, maybe four generations. They make reference and mention family connections you didn't even know you had.  I have found extra children of a couple I thought I had already researched thoroughly. 
 
But in short you'll all be very pleasantly surprised when you start looking through these gold-mines of genealogical data.
 
Regards,
Steven F. Hernández.