I too have come across instances in the 1500s and 1600s where some siblings took on the surname of their father and others, their mother's. I have heard some of the following explanations to account for this:1)Perhaps their mother’s line was more distinguished,
particularly if she was the daughter or grandaughter
of someone famous;2)Perhaps their father had committed some crime and
some of his children did not want to be associated
with his name;3)Perhaps the father’s line/surname was associated as
being Sephardic and some children wished to disguise
this fact, particularly when the Inquisition came to
Mexico.Or perhaps it really was not that big a deal back then
to take on one parent’s name over the other. I imagine
for most of the Spanish conquistadores and immigrants,
coming to the New World must have been a fluid time in
terms of identity–it was a rare chance to remake
themselves.Chris Pineda
— Arturo Ramos <arturo.ramos2@…> wrote:
> Linda:
>
> I got some persepective on this issue from Mssrs. de
> la Torre Berumen
> and Valdes Salazar while I was down in Mexico.
>
> Apparently, soon after the Mexican independence,
> President Vicente
> Guerrero (who was mulatto) decreed that all
> Spaniards be expelled from
> Mexico. In reality, many were exempted but
> certainly all of those who
> had been loyalists during the war of independence
> and those that had
> royal ties (since Mexico was now a republic) were
> expelled.
>
> Those Spanish families that remained became weary of
> being labeled
> Spanish and particularly loyalists or royalists and
> thus those
> with "composed names" such as "Carlos y Godoy" or
> "Fernandez de Jara
> Quemada" quickly dropped parts of their names to
> mexicanize them. I
> think it was somewhat arbitrary which parts they
> dropped.
>
> On a similar note, I would appreciate hearing any
> perspectives people
> may have about how children chose whether to take on
> the mother’s
> family name vs. the father’s family name. I have
> run across many
> instances, particularly in the 17th century where
> children of the same
> family took on different names, i.e. some siblings
> took on the father’s
> name "Covarrubias" and other siblings in the same
> family took on the
> mother’s name "De La O" so you have siblings with
> different last names.
>
> — In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda
> Castanon-Long"
> <longsjourney@y…> wrote:
> >
> > I’m hoping you can help me with double surnames.
> Is there a
> > difference when they use De or Y? Such as Alvares
> del Castillo or
> > Ochoa y Garibay? How long did they usually keep
> the double surname?
> > I haven’t found a reason why some families ended
> up using the surname
> > they chose.. Villasenor y Jaso, some went
> Villasenor and others went
> > Jaso.. same family!
> >
> > I have gone from records in Tamazula Jalisco to
> Chilchota Michoacan.
> > So many families from that part of Jalisco came
> from this area of
> > Michoacan in the later 1700’s. In doing marriage
> records from there
> > I’m finding it not unusual to have the actual
> marriage in the home of
> > a family member, was that normal for the mid
> 1750’s?
> > Linda in Everett
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
|
Chris Pineda wrote: I'm wondering about this possibility. It is my understanding that to be full Spanish was better than Mestizo. so maybe if the mother was thought to be more full blooded spanish they chose to use that name because the genealogy would show this to be true, whereas maybe with the father the lines were more complicated or maybe he was even a "Hijo Natural."I too have come across instances in the 1500s and 1600s where some siblings took on the surname of their father and others, their mother's. I have heard some of the following explanations to account for this: I really don't know about this since I haven't any examples in my own genealogy of the name being the surname of the mother instead of the father. joseph
|
|
|
I too have been wondering about the use of surnames in Mexico. I
still don't understand what was meant when they used the "de" in front of the
surname. Did they mean to say they were from a certain place? Back in
the early 1700's in Zacatecas, I find that my Olagues used the "de
Olague". There is a town in the Basque region of Spain with that
name. However, I have no idea when that town was founded and if my
ancestors came from there. They were Basque, that I know.
Also, I find that many of my ancestors in Zacatecas used surnames
interchangeably. My Tinajeros used the surnames Felix, Flores or Suriano
often but there was not consistency (it would change from one generation to
another and then back again), and my Matas, Valdeses and Pereses used those
names interchangeably as did my Escovedo/de la Torre and Quijas/Berumen
lines. Could it be that since only a handful of surnames were used in each
community, that the people there were confused as to what their surnames
were? Were they intimidated into using some surnames over others?
Was it more prestigious or convenient to use certain surnames? This has
all made it very difficult to find all the siblings in one family because they
used different combinations of surnames at each baptism.
This puts me in mind of what Anglos have done to preseve their more
prestigious names. The Cabot-Lodges were really Lodges who used their
mother's surname as a middle name ("the Lodges talk only to the Cabots, and the
Cabots talk only to God"), versus using that name as the second surname as is
done in Mexico. I notice that those who are related to the Kennedys
through their mothers use the Kennedy name as a middle name. They consider
themselves Kennedys. Also, Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy always used the
middle name Lee to denote she was a "Lee" from Virginia ("Lee" being a very
prestigious name-- as in Robert E. Lee--, more so than Kennedy).
One thing I have not found (perhaps because I have not gone back far
enough) is the use of the "y". I do find (when browsing the census files
that Puerto Ricans use the "y". Is it that people from a certain
place in Spain used "de" or "y" and their descendents in the New World continued
the same practice? Why do people in Puerto Rico still do that? I
notice that in Mexico two surnames are always used, but they eliminate the
"y".
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
|
|
Great questions,
Emilie. I've often wondered about all that. From what I read, our
Spanish ancestors came here to either get away from persecution (Sephardic Jews)
or poverty. It seems this was an opportunity to better themselves, and
perhaps take on new identities. The French would utilize "de" to denote
nobility. I wonder if our ancestors also tried to appear as noble
too.
Irma From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emilie Garcia Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6:02 PM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: double surnames I too have been wondering about the use of surnames in Mexico. I
still don't understand what was meant when they used the "de" in front of the
surname. Did they mean to say they were from a certain place? Back in
the early 1700's in Zacatecas, I find that my Olagues used the "de
Olague". There is a town in the Basque region of Spain with that
name. However, I have no idea when that town was founded and if my
ancestors came from there. They were Basque, that I know.
Also, I find that many of my ancestors in Zacatecas used surnames
interchangeably. My Tinajeros used the surnames Felix, Flores or Suriano
often but there was not consistency (it would change from one generation to
another and then back again), and my Matas, Valdeses and Pereses used those
names interchangeably as did my Escovedo/de la Torre and Quijas/Berumen
lines. Could it be that since only a handful of surnames were used in each
community, that the people there were confused as to what their surnames
were? Were they intimidated into using some surnames over others?
Was it more prestigious or convenient to use certain surnames? This has
all made it very difficult to find all the siblings in one family because they
used different combinations of surnames at each baptism.
This puts me in mind of what Anglos have done to preseve their more
prestigious names. The Cabot-Lodges were really Lodges who used their
mother's surname as a middle name ("the Lodges talk only to the Cabots, and the
Cabots talk only to God"), versus using that name as the second surname as is
done in Mexico. I notice that those who are related to the Kennedys
through their mothers use the Kennedy name as a middle name. They consider
themselves Kennedys. Also, Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy always used the
middle name Lee to denote she was a "Lee" from Virginia ("Lee" being a very
prestigious name-- as in Robert E. Lee--, more so than Kennedy).
One thing I have not found (perhaps because I have not gone back far
enough) is the use of the "y". I do find (when browsing the census files
that Puerto Ricans use the "y". Is it that people from a certain
place in Spain used "de" or "y" and their descendents in the New World continued
the same practice? Why do people in Puerto Rico still do that? I
notice that in Mexico two surnames are always used, but they eliminate the
"y".
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
|
|
Mmmmm Since this subject started I've thought about
the Novela that I'm watching "Alborada" . . . The prestigious noble family
is Manrique y Arellano. So, this might be a dumb question but maybe the "Y" was
used for noble families such as: Counts, Dukes, etc.? From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Irma GomezLucero Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:38 AM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ranchos] Re: double surnames Great questions,
Emilie. I've often wondered about all that. From what I read, our
Spanish ancestors came here to either get away from persecution (Sephardic Jews)
or poverty. It seems this was an opportunity to better themselves, and
perhaps take on new identities. The French would utilize "de" to denote
nobility. I wonder if our ancestors also tried to appear as noble
too.
Irma From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emilie Garcia Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6:02 PM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: double surnames I too have been wondering about the use of surnames in Mexico. I
still don't understand what was meant when they used the "de" in front of the
surname. Did they mean to say they were from a certain place? Back in
the early 1700's in Zacatecas, I find that my Olagues used the "de
Olague". There is a town in the Basque region of Spain with that
name. However, I have no idea when that town was founded and if my
ancestors came from there. They were Basque, that I know.
Also, I find that many of my ancestors in Zacatecas used surnames
interchangeably. My Tinajeros used the surnames Felix, Flores or Suriano
often but there was not consistency (it would change from one generation to
another and then back again), and my Matas, Valdeses and Pereses used those
names interchangeably as did my Escovedo/de la Torre and Quijas/Berumen
lines. Could it be that since only a handful of surnames were used in each
community, that the people there were confused as to what their surnames
were? Were they intimidated into using some surnames over others?
Was it more prestigious or convenient to use certain surnames? This has
all made it very difficult to find all the siblings in one family because they
used different combinations of surnames at each baptism.
This puts me in mind of what Anglos have done to preseve their more
prestigious names. The Cabot-Lodges were really Lodges who used their
mother's surname as a middle name ("the Lodges talk only to the Cabots, and the
Cabots talk only to God"), versus using that name as the second surname as is
done in Mexico. I notice that those who are related to the Kennedys
through their mothers use the Kennedy name as a middle name. They consider
themselves Kennedys. Also, Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy always used the
middle name Lee to denote she was a "Lee" from Virginia ("Lee" being a very
prestigious name-- as in Robert E. Lee--, more so than Kennedy).
One thing I have not found (perhaps because I have not gone back far
enough) is the use of the "y". I do find (when browsing the census files
that Puerto Ricans use the "y". Is it that people from a certain
place in Spain used "de" or "y" and their descendents in the New World continued
the same practice? Why do people in Puerto Rico still do that? I
notice that in Mexico two surnames are always used, but they eliminate the
"y".
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
|
|
I think I can explain a few things about the double
surname issue.
The last names were established to distinguish a person.
They are the ultimate ID. The last name allows to determine who that person
belongs to. The use of the "de" and the "y" are essentially that. That
person belongs to this group and that group. It could be a family, or
an earlier time even a location, etc. It was the tradition. In some
regions that continue to this day (specially Spain). The use of the "de" and the
"y" alone doesn't mean "nobility". It is possible, but in some regions that was
only a tradition for every member. The only thing that it shows was that
the person had 2 groups he wanted to be related to.
The last names have been the product of an evolution. Now,
we know that the 1st last name is the father's and the second last name is the
mother's, but before, like many of us noticed that wasn't the case. You really
could pick and choose how you wanted to be recognized. Who
you were related to (belong to). Another historian told me, your name
and last names were your coat of arms. It was and it is your heritage.
You could select one group over the other one for different reasons. During my
research I noticed that in Mexico the double surname system was set more less
after 1750's (many exceptions of course). Meaning, your first last name was your
father's and your second from your mother's. On the other hand, in Spain, the
same system was more less set 100 years before (with the same exceptions).
Mexico after the conquest had to pass for the process of creation of many new
last names. (In the Americas were many people without a last name). In Mexico, specially after the independece,many families dropped
the "de" and "y". It was a way to break with old traditions.
Also, I noticed that your name wasn't set during your
whole life. You could be known in different ways. For example, in one of my
oldest lines I have Juan de Astola y Saola. He was born in Ochandiano, Vizcaya
around 1550.
EXAMPLE
NAME: Juan de Astola y Saola
Father: Juan de Astola y Saola
Mother: Marina de Aromayona y Astola
My problem is that Juan had many names. Some of them from
baptism records of his children or his own marriage certificate.
DIFFERENT NAMES
1. Juan de Astola y Saola
2. Juan de Saola
3. Juan de Aromayona y Saola
4. Juan de Astola
Same person, different names. How did I resolve my
problem?. I made a note of the different names, and respected the name of the
oldest record. I don't believe he wanted to assume different identities. I
guess, back then, everyone in town knew who was Juan...
I'm attaching to this e-mail a very interesting document
on the subject. The document is a lecture given by Don Jaime de Salazar y Acha
to the "Real Academia Matritense de Heraldica y Genealogia". The name of the
lecture is "Genesis y evolucion historica del apellido en Espana". The lecture
was given in Spanish. I hoped it helps
Saludos,
Susana Leniski
--- Original Message -----
|
Attachment:
GenesisdelosApellidos.doc
Description: MS-Word document
Linda,
I get something like that when asked what nationality I am.....one time at my
work's cafeteria, a man approached me and asked, "Excuse me, what are you, from
India? Oh no, I got it, you're polynesian...you look so exotic! (not sure
whether he was flirting or not)"....so I'm just staring at him and I said, "No,
I'm Mexican-American...." I said this with a proud smile on my face.
He looked shocked. He was like "No, you couldn't be Mexican....are you
mixed with something else?" At that point, I gave this pest my famous
"raised eyebrow" and a smirk, turned and walked away. Now mind you, I
don't know what people mean when they say, "you don't look Mexican"....I just
chalk it up to peoples ignorance.
Peggy
-----Original Message-----Erlinda:
From: ranchos@...om [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arturo Ramos
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:56 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: double surnames
The whole Chicano vs. Mexican-American vs. Latin@ vs. Hispanic debate
is a very contentious one in the United States. I think that all of
those terms are very politically laden such that there is no single
one that everyone would agree with. There is an interesting episode
where the renowned author Sandra Cisneros balked at being featured in
Hispanic magazine because of such a disagreement. She agreed only
after the magazine agreed to show her on the cover in a profile shot
with a fake tatoo reading "LATINA" across her arm.
There is an interesting article on this:
http://www.hispanicmagazine.com/2000/dec/Features/latino.html
I suppose that if you want to designate descendancy from peoples of
Mexico, Mexican or Mexican-American would be the most precise. I
will leave my commentary at that lest I get myself in trouble.
Interesting thing though, I have run across documents where the
indigenous peoples of the area around Colotlan and Totatiche would
refer to the indigenous colonizers from the south (Tlaxcaltecs,
Otomis and Huastecs) as "mexicanos" designating that they spoke the
Mexican language (i.e. nahuatl) and they did not consider themselves
as such, since they spoke a different (Tepehuan) language. One of
these references appears in an interview with one of the last
tepehuan speakers in Azqueltan, Jalisco in 1912!
I think that the term Mexican to designate all of the ethinicities of
Mexico was probably not adopted until after independence. I imagine
that those of pure Spanish descent would not consider themselved
Mexican before that, especially when the term specifically refered to
the nahuatl-speakers of central Mexico.
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
>
> I want to thank everyone for the input on double surnames and y
versus
> de... I had forgotten that I use a double surname too! I felt I
> didn't want to give up my Hispanic maiden name so just hyphenated
it
> with my married name. That makes me Castanon-Long, I guess in
Latin
> America that would make me Castanon y Long ... I found at the
family
> reunion that most of my female cousins from my generation did the
> same. Many of us did not marry Hispanic but would have kept our
> maiden name regardless. Just like someone said, it's a matter of
> family pride..
>
> One more question.. which is 'politically' correct to designate our
> nationality of origin if we or our ancestors were from Mexico...
> Hispanic, Latino, Mexican-American or American-Mexican? I find I
> really upset some people when I call myself Hispanic. I'm told that
> excludes my Indio blood... People ask me what my nationality is
> because I'm just brown enough to not be Anglo but have light green
> eyes, my sister get's the same thing and she has blue eyes and
> freckles. I still laugh when told I don't look like a Mexican...
what
> does a Mexican look like!!!!
>
> Linda in Everett
>
|
Linda,
When some Anglo says "you don't look Mexican" it means that you don't look
like his idea of Mexicans formed by most of the Mexicans he has
seen---field or orchard workers, very dark, made darker by the sun, very small
due to their mostly Indian blood, pitch black hair and eyes, poorly dressed, not
too clean due to their constant labor in dirty places. You probably speak
English without an accent, too.
When asked a question by an Anglo and I don't respond instantly, inevitably
comes the next question, "Do you speak English?" Most people in the
Southwest and California "know" that I am "Mexican"; I look "typically" Mexican,
but the Asian cast to my eyes throws people who are more familiar with
Filipinos, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, Thai, etc. such as up here in
the Northwest.
When asked what I am, I say I am Mexican and Native American (in Mexico, I
am a Mestiza or Morena). When asked by a Latin American in Spanish "eres
Latina?", I say "Si, soy Mexicana". When I travel, I am always taken as
whatever dark skinned ethnicity they have in whatever country or state (Hawaii,
Alaska, Italy, Spain) I happen to be in. In foreign countries I tell them
I am American (I was born in Colorado). In Spain, they insist I am
Mexican, not American, no matter where I was born.
I agree with Arturo below that if our ancestors came from Mexico, then we
should say we are Mexicans. I can say I am also Native American because I
am Piro-Manso-Tewa (Pueblo tribes) on my mother's side. My father said he
was a Mestizo Mexicano born in Jerez. I also think that since there is no
country known as Chicana, we don't have to call ourselves Chicanos. (I
don't like the term either, maybe because I associate it with those that don't
want to acculturate). As for Aztlan, they might as well tell me about the
mythical Atlantis, though I believe there was one continent that everyone in the
world descends from, since all the creation stories sound so similar.
They can call me Hispana or Latina, but I will say that I am Mexican.
There is no land called Hispana or Latina. There is Espana, Mexico,
Italia, Deutschland, France, etc., and our ancestors came from Mexico, so we are
Mexicanas.
My husband identifies himself as Mexican, and he is often taken for Anglo
or "Spanish". Some Anglos think it is politically correct to call him
"Castillian Spanish", since they think that Mexicans with white skin are really
Castillian Spanish and not Mexican, but like his sister says, no, there is Spain
and there is Mexico, and their ancestors came from Mexico, no matter what they
look like. Also Castillian is a language and not an
ethnicity. The people in Spain though identify themselves as
Madrileno, Pamplonico, Sevillano, Vasco, Castellano, etc., since they are very
provincial, and the provinces have their own languages as we found out when we
went there and thought that everybody would speak Castillian.
For those of us born or living here permanently, we should consider
ourselves as American as the blacks here are, though like them and the Native
Americans we suffer from racism. I believe one reason we have so many
Mexican immigrants here is that the racism in Mexico that keeps people down,
unable to rise above their station. We are also getting more acculturated
here. Of my many first cousins, only two have married Anglos, but all of
their children have married Anglos. America is becoming more and more
changed, more racially integrated and mixed, and though the Neo-Nazi skinhead
says he hates it, he still stops by Taco Bell and has himself a taco. He does
not realize he has lost the war. Without our people the Anglos couldn't afford
an apple, a lettuce, or dinner out at a nice place. We shall
overcome.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
|
Peggy: It can even happen among friends. Our high school class still tries to get together once a month for lunch and we always meet at a Mexican restaurant. We were over 600 in our class, but usually we are just about 20 present. And almost always I am the only Hispanic present.
Two lunches ago I was asked about what I was doing. I stood up (because I was in a hurry to return to work) and quickly explained about the excitement of working on my family tree and my trip to Mexico. In a voice loud enough to be heard throughout the restaurant, one of the fellows commented; "Oh, I didn't know you were Mexican!" Everyone froze. People at the other tables turned in our direction. I was speechless. "I'm American." and before I could continue, a classmate added in a you-idiot-kind of voice as she glared at him. "...of Mexican
descent." "I hope that isn't a problem..." I added, even as I felt anger coming over me. But I managed to smile, wave and left. I could hear them berating him.
As luck would have it, I sat next to him the next time. And when it was announced that one of the group had moved to Mexico, can you believe it, he belted out "Oh, I didn't know she was Mex..." He didn't finish the sentence. Everyone turned to stare at him. The poor fellow froze. "You never learn.." someone hissed. "She moved there because she loves it there. Is that a problem?" Then he noticed I was sitting next to him. He winced. I don't think it was malice, but maybe insensitivity or even ignorance. No, I didn't hurt him. I rather enjoyed watching the others reacting to him.
But you
know, it works the other way, too. I don't look Hispanic and more than once when I speak Spanish, someone has exclaimed "Oh...I didn't know you were Mexican. I always thougth you were a gringa." Sigh. I don't know which is worse.
Happy New Year!
Mary
Peggy Delgado <peggydee@...> wrote:
Peggy Delgado <peggydee@...> wrote:
Linda, I get something like that when asked what nationality I am.....one time at my work's cafeteria, a man approached me and asked, "Excuse me, what are you, from India? Oh no, I got it, you're polynesian...you look so exotic! (not sure whether he was flirting or not)"....so I'm just staring at him and I said, "No, I'm Mexican-American...." I said this with a proud smile on my face. He looked shocked. He was like "No, you couldn't be Mexican....are you mixed with something else?" At that point, I gave this pest my famous "raised eyebrow" and a smirk, turned and walked away. Now mind you, I don't know what people mean when they say, "you don't look Mexican"....I just chalk it up to peoples ignorance.Peggy-----Original Message-----Erlinda:
From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arturo Ramos
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:56 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: double surnames
The whole Chicano vs. Mexican-American vs. Latin@ vs. Hispanic debate
is a very contentious one in the United States. I think that all of
those terms are very politically laden such that there is no single
one that everyone would agree with. There is an interesting episode
where the renowned author Sandra Cisneros balked at being featured in
Hispanic magazine because of such a disagreement. She agreed only
after the magazine agreed to show her on the cover in a profile shot
with a fake tatoo reading "LATINA" across her arm.
There is an interesting article on this:
http://www.hispanicmagazine.com/2000/dec/Features/latino.html
I suppose that if you want to designate descendancy from peoples of
Mexico, Mexican or Mexican-American would be the most precise. I
will leave my commentary at that lest I get myself in trouble.
Interesting thing though, I have run across documents where the
indigenous peoples of the area around Colotlan and Totatiche would
refer to the indigenous colonizers from the south (Tlaxcaltecs,
Otomis and Huastecs) as "mexicanos" designating that they spoke the
Mexican language (i.e. nahuatl) and they did not consider themselves
as such, since they spoke a different (Tepehuan) language. One of
these references appears in an interview with one of the last
tepehuan speakers in Azqueltan, Jalisco in 1912!
I think that the term Mexican to designate all of the ethinicities of
Mexico was probably not adopted until after independence. I imagine
that those of pure Spanish descent would not consider themselved
Mexican before that, especially when the term specifically refered to
the nahuatl-speakers of central Mexico.
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
>
> I want to thank everyone for the input on double surnames and y
versus
> de... I had forgotten that I use a double surname too! I felt I
> didn't want to give up my Hispanic maiden name so just hyphenated
it
> with my married name. That makes me Castanon-Long, I guess in
Latin
> America that would make me Castanon y Long ... I found at the
family
> reunion that most of my female cousins from my generation did the
> same. Many of us did not marry Hispanic but would have kept our
> maiden name regardless. Just like someone said, it's a matter of
> family pride..
>
> One more question.. which is 'politically' correct to designate our
> nationality of origin if we or our ancestors were from Mexico...
> Hispanic, Latino, Mexican-American or American-Mexican? I find I
> really upset some people when I call myself Hispanic. I'm told that
> excludes my Indio blood... People ask me what my nationality is
> because I'm just brown enough to not be Anglo but have light green
> eyes, my sister get's the same thing and she has blue eyes and
> freckles. I still laugh when told I don't look like a Mexican...
what
> does a Mexican look like!!!!
>
> Linda in Everett
>
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Just thought I would make a comment about
identity from a different perspective.
My uncle Tomás, who never set
foot in the US and of course, did not speak a word of English, told me the
following:
"We are Tlaxcalans. We are not Mexicans
although one of our greatgrandmothers was an Aztec." He used to say that in our
family dona Cecilia was the only Mexican. As I said before, She was a
Mexica (Aztec or Mexican).
He chafed everytime someone from the
area in Coahuila my family settled in said "we are Mexicans". He used
to say that that moniker (or gentilicio as it is properly called) became popular
around the 1930 with a push from the Mexican government to unite the
nation. Apparently before that people still were having problems feeling
themselves Mexican. Once a group of officials from the Mexican government
told the people at a meeting of agricultores "You are all Mexicans."
My uncle and the others promptly responded angrily "Lo serán
ustedes!"
His contention was that we knew what we were, and that
wasn't Mexican.
Uncle Tomás was born in 1904 and has
been dead for many years. As for being Tlaxcalan, I take that now with a
grain of salt. Uncle Tomás used to say that his family line was
Indian, native to the Americas although Dona Cecilia was really
Aztec. We believed that for over 300 years. Well, we just had
the results back from DNA testing and that famous Indian line isn't
really
Indian at all. It turned out to be more closely
related to the Europeans from Nortwest Europe and more closely realted to the
Vikings than other Europeans. This is what someone I consulted with
regarding the results sent to me: "The set of results you sent me belongs to a haplogroup
named I1a. That haplogroup is only seen among men whose paternal lines are of
European descent."
I had the results checked twice by different companies and
they came back the same so I bowed to reality.
My cousins are having a hard time
accepting what they now know they are. The ones with the degrees are the ones
having the biggest problems accepting reality.
Uncle Tomás was white looking and
married and Indian woman whose family came from Nieves, Zacatecas. As you
can imagine their kids are pure capirotada as far as looks go. Some look
like Indians painted white, others look like Spanish painted dark and yet others
look like what they are: mestizos. Same story with his brothers and sisters and
their kids' kids. Some have blue eyes, others green or brown but none with
black eyes.
Because we are so mixed we look like
everybody and anybody when we travel abroad. I also have a problem with
nationalities and ethnic groups: I have been taken as being any nationality
except Mexican. People get angry at me because I don't speak
their language.
My family has not figured out yet what to
call itself in the US yet and now we have to contend with another finding.
Maybe we'll just settle on what the Spanish priests used to call the
majority of Mexicans: naturales del pais (which one?.
Elvira
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Yes, Peggy, regarding your comment about not knowing which is
worse---comments about your ethnicity from Anglos or from Mexicans: my
husband was made fun of by a group of Mexicans in the Marines when he went out
on the lawn at Camp Pendleton to lie down and try to get a tan. Though he
was as white as snow, they still thought it was inappropriate for someone named
Antonio Garcia to get a tan, that only "gringos" should do that. Also,
when he hears someone speaking Spanish and he joins in, he gets surprised
looks. As for the comments from Anglos, I recall another incident at his
workplace later that someone told him, "Oh, I didn't know you were
Mexican. The only Mexicans I have ever known were little brown guys
working construction". Yes, the political incorrectness comes from both
sides.
Emilie
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