[ranchos] Re: Victor (Villarreal in Zacatecas, etc.)

In a message dated 2/11/2005 10:10:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, vela_este@... writes:
Well, it is not so much that this conversation would be boring to other members as it is that it could easily drift away from the main area of interest of the Ranchos group. 
Exactly....this group is centered on a particular area of our background....which is what I meant about "boring" because it does not necessarily apply to research of this group...that of western part of Mexico, in particular Zacatecas, Jalisco, etc...
Anyway, just to reply to your previous post, here are a couple of comments.

I still don't have a full picture of all the historical events related to the first Villarreales in "the New Spain".  I know the first Villarreales that settled in Northeast Mexico were involved in mining for precious metals along with other historical characters as Bernabé de las Casas and Martin de Zavala.
This is what I know as well.....
  I believe the first mining sites in Mexico were located in the center of the country and there was a gradual movement in search of new sites in practically every direction.  Many of the settlers of Nuevo Leon had already passed thru Guanajuato, San Luis Potosi, Zacatecas, etc. on their way up north.  I believe such is the case for Diego de Villarreal.
Yep - it makes sense - there was a mandate of the times ...to benefit the "mother country" and the "discoverer" ....


As you know, there are some Villarreales among the passenger list of some of the very first ships from Spain.  And in my Internet searches I've come across some very old legal document from the early 1600's that mention some Villarreal in México City.
Yes, the name is associated along with the initial passenger list....difficult to ascertain actual connection to us....
  That's the same period in which Diego de Villarreal appears in the chronicles of "Nuevo Reyno de León", which means that there were some other Villarreales down south.  I will try to locate that document, as I remember saving it in some folder on my hard disk. 
I'd be very curious as to the connection of those Villarreales ....as you know, it would only take one to write back to the "mother country" about the virtues of their discovery to promote others to take the risk....
There are very few historical documents with references to the surname Villarreal from the early colonial period and it is hard to put the puzzle together. 
The only ones I am aware of is the ones that Danny pieced together.....
It is just a couple of years since I started getting interested in this subject and don't have as much time to dedicate to this research as I would like.  Well, you know how it is, but I hope that in time I can collect more bits and pieces of our history.

Regarding Danny, the first thing that I find objectionable is the coat of arms that he displays on his web page as the Villarreal coat of arms.  Coat of arms are not passed on to just anyone with the same name . It follows the family only of the original coat of arms owner and usually his eldest son. 
As a History teacher, I find this piece of information fascinating...I knew about inheritance rights (regarding eldest son), but I had no idea that it also applied to the coat of arms as well.....
And besides that, there are about a dozen different designs of arms for the Villarreal surname, so how do you decide which one to choose.  I think it is not right to give a wrong and misleading impression to people, particularly to those who are just starting out in their search of their genealogical roots.
I see your point, and concur....


About the Sephardic origins, I admit that possibility but I haven't come across conclusive evidence, so I prefer to leave that as an open-ended issue.
I understand what you are saying.....it was perplexing to me, until various members of the family started the probing (they had heard the same rumors even before it was vogue)....but when my great uncle, definitely a "Catolico" confirmed the family rumors that this was part of our "Villarreal" legacy, I am left to believe him....particularly because he had nothing to gain, but everything to lose to admit to this....however, like you, I have no proof...just the story of his cousin discovering the "Torah" in Allende, Coahuila.....hidden between stones.....
  I would never try to apply a label to a whole group of people just because they share the same surname.  Neither do I think is politically correct to glamorize the life of our ancestors as glorious "Conquistadors", particularly when so many unjustified atrocities were committed in historical times against so many people.
This is our legacy shared by all Mexicans....we carry the blood of the "Conquistadores" or at least the aspiring Spaniards who wished to "conquer"  or believed themselves better than the indigenous population ......and the "Indios" , "Africanos", those of us that were forced in servitude.....we are a contradiction of faces.....to deny our mother is the same as to deny our fathers.....we are the faces of proud and racist Europeans, and as we turn to our profile, we are also the faces of proud and resilient "Indios", Africanos, and many others....we are like a divorced family.....some of us are proud of certain roots, others are proud of the other roots...but we are undeniably a product of both....and those of us that understand our inheritance our richer for our experiences......
 
Esperanza


Victor Villarreal wrote:
Esperanza,

Well, it is not so much that this conversation would be boring to other members as it is that it could easily drift away from the main area of interest of the Ranchos group. Anyway, just to reply to your previous post, here are a couple of comments.

I still don’t have a full picture of all the historical events related to the first Villarreales in “the New Spain”. I know the first Villarreales that settled in Northeast Mexico were involved in mining for precious metals along with other historical characters as Bernabé de las Casas and Martin de Zavala. I believe the first mining sites in Mexico were located in the center of the country and there was a gradual movement in search of new sites in practically every direction. Many of the settlers of Nuevo Leon had already passed thru Guanajuato, San Luis Potosi, Zacatecas, etc. on their way up north. I believe such is the case for Diego de Villarreal.

As you know, there are some Villarreales among the passenger list of some of the very first ships from Spain. And in my Internet searches I’ve come across some very old legal document from the early 1600’s that mention some Villarreal in México City. That’s the same period in which Diego de Villarreal appears in the chronicles of “Nuevo Reyno de León”, which means that there were some other Villarreales down south. I will try to locate that document, as I remember saving it in some folder on my hard disk. There are very few historical documents with references to the surname Villarreal from the early colonial period and it is hard to put the puzzle together. It is just a couple of years since I started getting interested in this subject and don’t have as much time to dedicate to this research as I would like. Well, you know how it is, but I hope that in time I can collect more bits and pieces of our history.

Regarding Danny, the first thing that I find objectionable is the coat of arms that he displays on his web page as the Villarreal coat of arms. Coat of arms are not passed on to just anyone with the same name .


yes I've heard the same. If you are not familiar with this series of books you should have a look at the write up on Villareal. I just learned from Lydia's report on the films at Westwood that this series of books is available on film via the FHC close to you [sadly but not for Villareal it looks like]:

http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/geneal/index_gc.html

Query results for: VILLARREAL&SUBMIT2=SUBMIT
Name Vol. Page
Villacampa 2 118
Villamil 2 152
Villareal 2 106
Villaverde 2 136
Villaviciosa 2 133
Villela 2 112
Villela 2 146

Title
Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de apellidos españoles y americanos

Stmnt.Resp.
por Alberto y Arturo García Carraffa

Authors
García Carraffa, Alberto, 1882-ca. 1963 (Main Author)
García Carraffa, Arturo, 1885-ca. 1940 (Added Author)

Notes
Microfilme del original publicado: Madrid : Impr. de Antonio Marzo, Nueva Impr. Radio ; Salamanca : Impr. Comercial Salmantina, 1920- 1956.
Titulillo: Enciclopedia heráldica y genealógica; diccionario de apellidos.
Los volúmenes del 77 al 86 de los autores Arturo y Alberto García Carraffa y los volúmenes del 87 al 101 de la autora Endika de Mogrobejo que completa la collección, no han sido microfilmado por los derechos de autor. Sin embargo se encuentran físicamente disponibles en la Biblioteca de Historia Familiar en Salt Lake City bajo el número de referencia 946 D6gc.
Heraldic and genealogical dictionary of Spanish and Spanish American surnames.
Cada tomo incluye índice.

Subjects
Spain - Heraldry
Spain - Names, Personal
Latin America - Heraldry
Latin America - Names, Personal
Central America - Heraldry
Central America - Names, Personal
Mexico - Heraldry
Mexico - Names, Personal
Names, Spanish

Format
Books/Monographs (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Austin, Texas : Filmado por Golightly-Payne-Coon, 1957

Physical
en 11 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

Series
Enciclopedia heráldica y genealógica hispano-americana : t. 3-78

References
(Continued By) Diccionario hispanoamericano de heráldica, onomástica y genealogía
(Other edition) Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de apellidos españoles y americanos

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
t. 1 (Aanda) - t. 5 (Alzuru) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35112 ]
t. 6 (Allado) - t. 12 (Basani) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35113 ]
t. 13 (Basanta) - t. 19 (Campani) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35114 ]
t. 20 (Campano) - t. 26 (Desportell) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35115 ]
t. 27 (Despou) - t. 33 (Franco) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35116 ]
t. 34 (Francolí) - t. 40 (Haro) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35117 ]
t. 41 (Hartos) - t. 47 (Lazcamburu) -  FHL INTL Film [ 35118 ]
t. 48 (Lazcano) - t. 54 (Mesares) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35119 ]
t. 55 (Mescua) - t. 6l (Olcina) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35120 ]
t. 62 (Olcinellas) - t. 68 (Pérez de Arramendia) -  VAULT INTL Film [ 35121 ]
t. 69 (Pérez de Arroyo) - t. 76 (Rizo) -  FHL INTL Film [ 35122 ]

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
===================
===================
looks like you'd need the book # Villalómez a Villavante -- v. 97 [i.e. 11]. That being the "seeming" case then I don't understand why that website has it listed as volume 2 p106. . .i don't know.

Title
Diccionario hispanoamericano de heráldica, onomástica y genealogía : adición al "Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de apellidos españoles y americanos", por Alberto y Arturo García Carraffa

Stmnt.Resp.
por Endika de Mogrobejo, con la colaboración de Aitziber, Irantzu y Garikoitz de Mogrobejo-Zabala

Authors
Mogrobejo, Endika de (Main Author)

Notes
Tomos 1 al 86 (apellidos Aanda a Urriza) fueron publicados anteriormente bajo el título "Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de apellidos españoles y americanos" por los autores Alberto y Arturo García Carraffa, 1952-1963. Nuestro catálogo # 38706.
Dictionary of hispanoamerican heraldic names including their coats of arms and genealogy. This collection of 15 volumes is a continuation of the previous work done by Alberto and Arturo García Carraffa in 1952-1963, which after their deaths became an incomplete set of 86 volumes.
Referencias bibliográficas.
Contenido: v. 87 [i.e. 1]. Urriza a Urtusáustegui -- v. 88 [i.e. 2]. Uruburu a Valcárcel -- v. 89 [i.e. 3]. Valcarcua a Valenzuela -- v. 90 [i.e. 4]. Valeñani a Vallejo -- v. 91 [i.e. 5]. Valgornera a Vargas-Zúñiga -- v. 92 [i.e. 6]. Varella o Varillas a Velázquez -- v. 93 [i.e. 7]. Veldani a Vergara -- v. 94 [i.e. 8]. Vergas a Vilacorba -- v. 95 [i.e. 9]. Vilach a Villaloin -- v. 96 [i.e. 10]. Villalómez a Villavante -- v. 97 [i.e. 11]. Villavedeo a Vitórica (o Bitórica) -- v. 98 [i.e. 12]. Víu (o Bíu) a Yezarbe -- v. 99 [i.e. 13]. Yoan a Zamora -- v. 100 [i.e. 14]. Zamorano a Zorroza (o Corroza) -- v.101 [i.e. 15]. Zorrozaga a Zuzuarregui.

Subjects
Spain - Heraldry - Dictionaries
Spain - Names, Personal - Dictionaries
Spain - Genealogy - Dictionaries
Latin America - Heraldry - Dictionaries
Latin America - Names, Personal - Dictionaries
Latin America - Genealogy - Dictionaries

Copies
Call Number - Location - Status
946 D6gc v. 87 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 88 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 89 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 90 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 91 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 92 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 93 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 94 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 95 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 96 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 97 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 98 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 99 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 100 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available
946 D6gc v. 101 -  FHL INTL Book -  Available

Format
Books/Monographs

Language
Spanish

Publication
Bilbao : Edit. Mogrobejo-Zabala, [1995]-

Physical
15 v. : esc. de armas (col.)

ISBN/ISSN
8492077425 (set)

Subject Class
946 D6

Series
Enciclopedia heráldica y genealógica hispano-americana

References
(Continues) Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de apellidos españoles y americanos
(See Also) Diccionario hispanoamericano de heráldica, onomástica y genealogía

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]

No film notes for this title.

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.


 It follows the family only of the original coat of arms owner and usually his eldest son.  And besides that, there are about a dozen different designs of arms for the Villarreal surname, so how do you decide which one to choose.  I think it is not right to give a wrong and misleading impression to people, particularly to those who are just starting out in their search of their genealogical roots.

About the Sephardic origins, I admit that possibility but I haven’t come across conclusive evidence, so I prefer to leave that as an open-ended issue. I would never try to apply a label to a whole group of people just because they share the same surname. Neither do I think is politically correct to glamorize the life of our ancestors as glorious “Conquistadors”, particularly when so many unjustified atrocities were committed in historical times against so many people.

Well, I don’t want to ramble on and on. Now it’s your turn to share some of your thoughts. (Everyone that cares to.)

Victor

— In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, latina1955@a… wrote:

Hi Victor,

I didn’t realize the Villarreales were connected to Zacatecas, although I
have read some history on Zacatecas and came across the Villarreal name quite
often, particularly during the time of civil war - I thought the original one
settled in Oaxaca. I have not been able to make a connection with Danny,
although the area that he mentions in Nuevo Leon (the place settled by the
original settlers there - Hidalgo, Nuevo Leon) is where my father’s grandfather
was from. It appears that the family moved to Coahuila around 1830 - not
really sure why, but I suspect it had to do with the Independence and “free”
territory to those willing to fight the hostile Apaches who lived in the area. My
grandmother also happens to be a Villarreal, but her relatives are from Cd
Victoria area. I still have a great aunt who lives in Nuevo Leon, she lives
in Monterrey. I am hoping to make a journey there this summer, to tap into
her memories…

I would love to hear how you differ from some of Danny’s assumptions…the
one thing that I can confirm is our Jewish background. My great uncle had
kept this secret, and it turns out that my aunts did too, until recently, when
it no longer mattered. If you feel that our conversation would be a bore to
the rest of the group, email me privately…perhaps we can find a
connection to our Villarreal side. I have been able to go back to the late 1700’s,
but it is connected mostly with my paternal’s mother side - the Bermea’s, who
were the original settlers of the town my father was from - Villa Union,
Coauhuila - then known as Rosales when my father was born…

Esperanza

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Regarding Coat of Arms:
I understand to use a "Coat of Arms" emblem, one has
to have proof that he/she is a direct descendant of a
person that was entitled to use that Coat of Arms.

I’ve seen a number of Coat of Arms for both sides of
my family, but I do not have proof that any one of my
families were ever entitled to use or claim them.

Alberto.

— Joseph Puentes <makas@…> wrote:

>
>
> Victor Villarreal wrote:
>
> >Esperanza,
> >
> >Well, it is not so much that this conversation
> would be boring to other members as it is that it
> could easily drift away from the main area of
> interest of the Ranchos group. Anyway, just to
> reply to your previous post, here are a couple of
> comments.
> >
> >I still don’t have a full picture of all the
> historical events related to the first Villarreales
> in "the New Spain". I know the first Villarreales
> that settled in Northeast Mexico were involved in
> mining for precious metals along with other
> historical characters as Bernabé de las Casas and
> Martin de Zavala. I believe the first mining sites
> in Mexico were located in the center of the country
> and there was a gradual movement in search of new
> sites in practically every direction. Many of the
> settlers of Nuevo Leon had already passed thru
> Guanajuato, San Luis Potosi, Zacatecas, etc. on
> their way up north. I believe such is the case for
> Diego de Villarreal.
> >
> >As you know, there are some Villarreales among the
> passenger list of some of the very first ships from
> Spain. And in my Internet searches I’ve come across
> some very old legal document from the early 1600’s
> that mention some Villarreal in México City. That’s
> the same period in which Diego de Villarreal appears
> in the chronicles of "Nuevo Reyno de León", which
> means that there were some other Villarreales down
> south. I will try to locate that document, as I
> remember saving it in some folder on my hard disk.
> There are very few historical documents with
> references to the surname Villarreal from the early
> colonial period and it is hard to put the puzzle
> together. It is just a couple of years since I
> started getting interested in this subject and don’t
> have as much time to dedicate to this research as I
> would like. Well, you know how it is, but I hope
> that in time I can collect more bits and pieces of
> our history.
> >
> >Regarding Danny, the first thing that I find
> objectionable is the coat of arms that he displays
> on his web page as the Villarreal coat of arms.
> Coat of arms are not passed on to just anyone with
> the same name .
> >
>
> yes I’ve heard the same. If you are not familiar
> with this series of
> books you should have a look at the write up on
> Villareal. I just
> learned from Lydia’s report on the films at Westwood
> that this series of
> books is available on film via the FHC close to you
> [sadly but not for
> Villareal it looks like]:
>
> http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/geneal/index_gc.html
>
> Query results for: VILLARREAL&SUBMIT2=SUBMIT Name
> Vol. Page
> Villacampa 2 118
> Villamil 2 152
> Villareal 2 106
> Villaverde 2 136
> Villaviciosa 2 133
> Villela 2 112
> Villela 2 146
>
>
> Title
> Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de apellidos
> españoles y americanos
>
> Stmnt.Resp.
> por Alberto y Arturo García Carraffa
>
> Authors
> García Carraffa, Alberto, 1882-ca. 1963 (Main
> Author)
> García Carraffa, Arturo, 1885-ca. 1940 (Added
> Author)
>
> Notes
> Microfilme del original publicado: Madrid : Impr. de
> Antonio Marzo,
> Nueva Impr. Radio ; Salamanca : Impr. Comercial
> Salmantina, 1920- 1956.
> Titulillo: Enciclopedia heráldica y genealógica;
> diccionario de apellidos.
> Los volúmenes del 77 al 86 de los autores Arturo y
> Alberto García
> Carraffa y los volúmenes del 87 al 101 de la autora
> Endika de Mogrobejo
> que completa la collección, no han sido microfilmado
> por los derechos de
> autor. Sin embargo se encuentran físicamente
> disponibles en la
> Biblioteca de Historia Familiar en Salt Lake City
> bajo el número de
> referencia 946 D6gc.
> Heraldic and genealogical dictionary of Spanish and
> Spanish American
> surnames.
> Cada tomo incluye índice.
>
> Subjects
> Spain - Heraldry
> Spain - Names, Personal
> Latin America - Heraldry
> Latin America - Names, Personal
> Central America - Heraldry
> Central America - Names, Personal
> Mexico - Heraldry
> Mexico - Names, Personal
> Names, Spanish
>
> Format
> Books/Monographs (On Film)
>
> Language
> Spanish
>
> Publication
> Austin, Texas : Filmado por Golightly-Payne-Coon,
> 1957
>
> Physical
> en 11 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
>
> Series
> Enciclopedia heráldica y genealógica
> hispano-americana : t. 3-78
>
> References
> (Continued By) Diccionario hispanoamericano de
> heráldica, onomástica y
> genealogía
> (Other edition) Diccionario heráldico y genealógico
> de apellidos
> españoles y americanos
>
> Film Notes
> Note - Location [Film]
> t. 1 (Aanda) - t. 5 (Alzuru) - VAULT INTL Film [
> 35112 ]
> t. 6 (Allado) - t. 12 (Basani) - VAULT INTL Film [
> 35113 ]
> t. 13 (Basanta) - t. 19 (Campani) - VAULT INTL Film
> [ 35114 ]
> t. 20 (Campano) - t. 26 (Desportell) - VAULT INTL
> Film [ 35115 ]
> t. 27 (Despou) - t. 33 (Franco) - VAULT INTL Film [
> 35116 ]
> t. 34 (Francolí) - t. 40 (Haro) - VAULT INTL Film [
> 35117 ]
> t. 41 (Hartos) - t. 47 (Lazcamburu) - FHL INTL Film
> [ 35118 ]
> t. 48 (Lazcano) - t. 54 (Mesares) - VAULT INTL Film
> [ 35119 ]
> t. 55 (Mescua) - t. 6l (Olcina) - VAULT INTL Film [
> 35120 ]
> t. 62 (Olcinellas) - t. 68 (Pérez de Arramendia) -
> VAULT INTL Film [
> 35121 ]
> t. 69 (Pérez de Arroyo) - t. 76 (Rizo) - FHL INTL
> Film [ 35122 ]
>
> © 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights
> reserved.
> ===================
> ===================
> looks like you’d need the book # Villalómez a
> Villavante – v. 97 [i.e.
> 11]. That being the "seeming" case then I don’t
> understand why that
> website has it listed as volume 2 p106. . .i don’t
> know.
>
> Title
> Diccionario hispanoamericano de heráldica,
> onomástica y genealogía :
> adición al "Diccionario heráldico y genealógico de
> apellidos españoles y
> americanos", por Alberto y Arturo García Carraffa
>
> Stmnt.Resp.
> por Endika de Mogrobejo, con la colaboración de
> Aitziber, Irantzu y
> Garikoitz de Mogrobejo-Zabala
>
> Authors
> Mogrobejo, Endika de (Main Author)
>
=== message truncated ===


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